I think we’re getting somewhere, Bernie:
1. I’m not going to debate whether certain un-named institutions have
refused to approve H[omeopathy] research. Drug companies fund & IRB
approve their own research all the time. Association with a university
is not necessary. The study I outlined could take place in a single
clinic.
2. I’d love to discuss at length the ins/outs & costs of various
research methodologies and why nothing but RCTs would serve H.
Obviously, the points I made about comparability of populations, hard
endpoints, and isolatable intervention weren’t persuasive. If this is
where you’d like to take this discussion, let’s go over to sci.med where
I’ll post a half dozen refs. on the topic. Then we can chat. This would
be a *fascinating* thread – I just didn’t think it was your cup of tea.
3.
>there are no "homeopathic medical giants". The total business of the
>hoemopathic medical companies in this country is somewhere around $500
>million a year. These companies do sponsor homeopathic research and
>research is currently ongoing.
IF this is true and not a gross underestimate, you have to realize it is
ALL profit. With no R&D costs, and certainly minimal production costs
(how many TONS of D30 can you make from one gm of galphimia anyway – I
guess there’s the hand succussing and all). If they spent one percent on
research ($5 million/year) this would fund, what, 20 great studies a
year.
Now, Bernie says some really cool stuff:
>Homeopathy is not perfectly safe; the most obvious danger is the risk of
>forgoing a more effective medical treatment.
I’ll just leave this, since a response will send the thread into other
directions that have nothing to do with the H research agenda. But it
raises a number of questions frequently dealt with in m.h.a. What
‘diseases’ lend themselves to ‘medical’ vs. ‘alternative’ therapy.
Bernie seems to know. Perhaps he’ll tell us.
>But there are risks associated with the homeopathic aggravation and
>"provings" of homeopathic medicine. Since these problems cease when the
>medicine is discontinued, they’re not considered as serious as the risks
>associated with allopathic medicine.
I found this interesting, too. How do you know any of this Bernie? The
years of rigorously collected and published experience of H research. As
I read the Ferley article it struck me that you guys are in a big bind.
IF H does have an effect, it is a completely inexplicable effect.
Therefore, its harmful and longterm effects are COMPLETELY unpredictable.
Perhaps harmonized & succussed water molecules screw up DNA big time??
I can say with some confidence that the data to contradict this
possibility do not exist in the published literature. Of course, it
makes no sense either (that is, it is biologically imlpausable), but
neither do the beneficial effects of H.
Anyway, this takes us far afield. Looks like we agree on the following:
o There are very few well done clinical trials to support H claims. The
current state of the literature allows us, at best, to be expectantly
optimistic about the great H research that is "currently underway".
o Funds exist within the H-pharmaceutical industrial complex to do good
research though inexplicably it has yet to appear.
o You found (or commented on) no problems with my design for a clinic
based H research protocol.
o We both await excellent research in this area and scorn bad research
even when it agrees with our bias.
o We both are willing to drop our current beliefs when enough quality
research is published. You were unwilling to state exactly what it would
take to have you abandon H.
We disagree on the following:
o You find personal experience and anecdote sufficiently persuasive to
overcome the biologic implausability of H and find the results of the few
good RCTs supportive of all of H. Enough so that you can make clinical
recommendations on treatments that lack any experimental evidence.
o You think that observational research (‘outcomes’) would be sufficient
to document therapeutic efficacy of H (a thread we might pursue on
sci.med).
o You think lack of cooperation by American universities is an
explanation for the abyssmal state of H research. You hold this view
despite the fact that drug research occurs daily under the auspices of
drug companies.